Today on the show we have Michelle Norris. Michelle and her husband, Keith, founded Paleo f(x), one of the biggest health and wellness and fitness events in the United States. She attracts hundreds and hundreds of different health and wellness entrepreneurs, vendors, and inventors to Austin, Texas every year.
I got the opportunity to visit the event and meet a lot of interesting people on the floor. This is a somewhat special episode as we are interviewing Michelle, but we’re also going to take you right on the floor and talk to some of the different innovators in this space that are creating very interesting products.
We’re going to hear a lot of different stories. This episode is probably a little bit longer than most episodes because we’re hearing from so many different people. I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I enjoyed creating it.
What You Will Learn On This Episode
- The Origin Story of Paleo f(x)
- New and Exciting Trends in the Milk Industry: Camel’s Milk
- How Paleo f(x) Creates Community
- Hangover Proofing Your Social Experiences with Dry Farm Wines
- The Logistics of Getting Research To The Public Through Documentaries
Links and Resources Mentioned in this Episode
Transcription
Kyle Gray:
Hello, and welcome to The Story Engine podcast. My name is Kyle Gray and today on the show we have Michelle Norris. Michelle and her husband, Keith, founded Paleo f(x), one of the biggest health and wellness and fitness events in the United States today. She attracts hundreds and hundreds of different health and wellness entrepreneurs, vendors, and inventors to Austin, Texas every year.
Kyle Gray:
And I got the chance to visit the event and meet a lot of interesting people on the floor. This is a somewhat special episode as we are interviewing Michelle, but we’re also going to take you right on the floor and talk to some of the different innovators in this space that are creating very interesting products.
Kyle Gray:
We’re going to hear a lot of different stories. This episode is probably a little bit longer than most episodes because we’re hearing from so many different people. But I hope that you enjoy the extended version. And there is maybe a little bit of an audio flub at the end. Michelle’s connection dropped for just a second and we had to pick it back up. So please bear with me on that one little audio mistake near the end. But I hope you enjoy this episode as much as I enjoyed creating it. Let’s take it over to Michelle.
Kyle Gray:
Michelle Norris, welcome to The Story Engine podcast. I am so excited to have you here today for this very special episode.
Michelle Norris:
Thank you so much for having me. I’m happy to be here.
Kyle Gray:
So, I want to introduce you properly with the question I asked all of my guests. Tell me about a moment in your life that has defined who you are and what you’re doing today.
Michelle Norris:
Wow. Okay. So that moment would have been the moment that Keith and I were told our daughter, Brittani, was killed in a car accident. That was May 2, 2009. It was three days before her 23rd birthday and a week before her college graduation. She was a music and worship ministry major and had planned to be a minister and work in the mission field.
Michelle Norris:
We had three different memorial services for her. The first one was held on what would have been her 23rd birthday at her college. There were about 700 people in attendance. And we had a receiving line where Keith and I were receiving these people. And they were talking to us about Brittani. Telling us about their relationship with her, whatever. But we couldn’t get over how many of those people, and it was a good majority of them, that were telling us how Brittani had changed their life.
Michelle Norris:
And not in a superficial or topical way. It wasn’t like, oh, she changed my life. It was, she changed my life because she said this. She changed my life because she did that. And so we were blown away. You think your kids are amazing, but when you are standing there in a situation like that. You are hearing over and over how this person that you knew and loved and all of these things.
Michelle Norris:
And you find out that they have had such a major impact in such a short period of time in a very short life. It was just shocking and humbling. And so we immediately started talking.
Michelle Norris:
And she had made such an impact. She had been over in South Africa for three and a half months. There were people there in South Africa that were from Scotland, no, Ireland. Sorry. I don’t know why I got those mixed up. Anyway, from Ireland. They had a memorial service for her in South Africa and they had a memorial service for her in Ireland.
Kyle Gray:
Wow.
Michelle Norris:
What an impact she’d had. You’re lucky if you have everybody in your family show up to one memorial service. If it’s raining, forget it. And she had three. And during two of them it was pouring down rain and she had hundreds of people at all of her memorial services. And so, anyway, really interesting.
Michelle Norris:
So Keith and I just started thinking, we can’t let her legacy die with her. We have to carry on what she started. She was changing people’s lives. We need to do that, too. And she was a very gifted and beautiful musician and singer. And she had the gift of prophecy and of worship. And she could preach like there was nobody’s business. And those are definitely not me and Keith’s gifts.
Michelle Norris:
So we just kept thinking, how are we going to do this? Are we going to carry on her legacy when that’s not our gifts. And we realized that we needed to operate in our gifts. And our gifts were food and nutrition and fitness and health and wellness. And we changed people’s lives through those things.
Michelle Norris:
But we carried her legacy on of changing people’s lives through Paleo (f)x now. Paleo (f)x was how we were able to carry on her legacy.
Kyle Gray:
That is incredible. And Paleo (f)x is an excellent continuation of her legacy in my perspective. Because that is a very beautiful story. And from what I’ve seen, you and Keith are absolutely impacting the world on a global scale. And carrying that forward. And hearing that story is absolutely touching. In all of the details in the event you’ve put together.
Kyle Gray:
But for those who maybe aren’t familiar with it, I thought for you to just give us a brief, kind of 30,000 foot view of what Paleo (f)x is.
Michelle Norris:
So, Paleo f(x) is a three-day immersion event into the Paleo lifestyle. So many people get caught up with the fact that our name is Paleo (f)x that they believe that this is a nutrition conference and it isn’t. There’s a very little of the nutrition actually at the conference.
Michelle Norris:
I mean, you can find out information, there, readily if you want to. But, by and large, it’s more about the lifestyle. It’s more about the tribe. It’s more about, in our belief there are six pillars of health. And I’m actually going to add a new one. I’m adding it today on your show.
Kyle Gray:
Whoa.
Michelle Norris:
We have had six pillars of health, and really there are seven pillars of health. And I just recognized that it was missing actually yesterday afternoon. And I was, actually they’re seven. And we really need to add that. And so, I’m adding it now.
Michelle Norris:
But previously, there were six. And the six were, one is emotional health, mental health, physical health, relational health, financial health, and spiritual health. But really, the seventh pillar is around community. Is around tribe. And for you to be a whole true healthy person you need all of these pillars of health in order to be healthy.
Michelle Norris:
Everyone needs tribe. And I realized yesterday, oh, geesh, that’s missing. We really need that. Yes, there’s the relational health but that is actually about the specific relationships in your life, not necessarily the community. But [bctt tweet=”You definitely need a tribe and a community behind you in order to be truly healthy – Michelle Norris” username=”kylethegray”].
Michelle Norris:
And so, really, that’s what Paleo f(x) is about, is about all of those pillars of health and making sure those all come together to make a whole, healthy person.
Kyle Gray:
I absolutely agree and I saw examples of all of those pillars in play at your event. And I want to explore some of them right now.
Kyle Gray:
Now I know it’s not a nutrition event, but I do on the floor see a lot of very unique food products on the floor. And you mentioned that food and nutrition are very, very important for you. Tell me a little bit about your ambitions to change the world through food and how we eat and what we’re eating.
Michelle Norris:
So, this is what’s interesting. When I became paleo I was very sick, actually. That was back in 2005, I believe. Somewhere around there. 2004, 2005. I had been very sick. I had been diagnosed with fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue syndrome, IBS… I had been misdiagnosed with early onset rheumatoid arthritis.
Michelle Norris:
I had all kinds of issues. Every since time that I ate I was sick. I’m a trained chef. My specialty at that time, before I became paleo, was Italian. We didn’t eat a lot of processed foods. We didn’t eat a lot of junk food or a lot of fast food.
Michelle Norris:
I made, by and large, most of our meals. I cooked at home almost every single night. Depending on one of our kids had some kind of sports event or whatever and I didn’t have time to make food ahead of time, that might be where we would go to a fast food restaurant or something like that.
Michelle Norris:
But, by and large, we believed we ate healthy. The problem was, of course, I’m a trained chef and the majority of the foods that I’m making are refined carbohydrates. And so lots of gluten and lots of grains. And so I had lots of chronic inflammation happening and it was making me very, very sick.
Michelle Norris:
So when I became paleo, within three weeks of going paleo, all of my symptoms were all gone. And then we also found out about a month and a half later that I actually did not have rheumatoid arthritis. And as anybody that knows anything about RA knows, that goes into remission. It doesn’t go away. So I was just misdiagnosed.
Michelle Norris:
And I think with all the chronic inflammation, that can happen. That you can end up with situations like that. So the thing is, is here I was getting healthy. What happened, though, was I was actually really angry about having to give up these foods that I loved in order to be healthy. And so I was in a state of denial and I kind of believed at some point in my life I was going to be able to figure out how to put these foods back into my life and be healthy. Which is ridiculous when you just even think about that, but I was in denial. There we go.
Michelle Norris:
So the thing is, is that I was a food writer and a recipe developer for a number of different websites. And I was developing lots of pasta and pizza and all of these things. Well, when I went paleo, I didn’t stop that because I was in this state of denial. And what happens is when you are on the standard American diet, the SAD diet, you yo-yo.
Michelle Norris:
We yo-yo in weight and in size all the time. And that’s just normal. So you’ll have everything from a size 6 to a size 12 in your closet. And you just go up and down. Just based on how you’re doing it you might go I need to diet, and then you suddenly will lose a lot of weight. Go back down in size or whatever, but you’re going to come back, right?
Michelle Norris:
I had been in paleo for about six weeks, and I had not noticed that I had gone back down in size. And in fact, I’m size 6 and I was actually getting smaller than that. Some of the size 6’s were actually a little bit too big for me, which is not really necessarily. I don’t feel good at that size.
Michelle Norris:
But anyway, I just hadn’t been paying attention to it. I didn’t even notice because I wasn’t dieting. I was just eating paleo. So what happened was, our son plays baseball. And he had been out of season for about 12 weeks, so we had not seen any of the parents or any of the kids for all this time. And we go to the very first baseball game, and all the parents are like, Oh, my god. You look amazing. You’ve lost so much weight. Your skin is so glowing. You look so healthy. What have you done?
Michelle Norris:
What? I’ve done nothing. I have been just eating paleo. And so when that moment happened, that was when the light bulb went off for me. That was when I realized, this information can help people. And what I realized going through this and that’s when I stopped writing for all the other websites. I created my own blog. And then, fast forward a few years, Keith and I ended up creating Paleo f(x).
Michelle Norris:
But what happened was I really started getting the word out. And in fact, Keith says that was the moment a paleo evangelist was born. Because when I find something that really works for me and I feel like it’s really helpful for other people, I’m one of those people that’s, oh, you have to check this out. Whatever.
Michelle Norris:
So it’s doing everything I could to get the word out around it. But what was happening for me was, I didn’t realize the full impact of eating this way in the balance and health through your mental health. I didn’t have any clue.
Michelle Norris:
I started getting all of that put together after several years is realizing it affects our mental health. It affects our hormone health. I mean it all affects everything. So for me, this is one of the best ways.
Michelle Norris:
Years ago I would have told you everybody should be paleo. I don’t agree with that any more. I don’t think everybody should be paleo. What I think everybody should be is a person that eats whole foods. Unprocessed foods. No refined carbohydrates. No gluten. No grains. No sugar.
Michelle Norris:
I think that everybody should be eating this way. But whether or not you decide that you’re going to do animal fats. If you feel like that’s not something ethically that you feel like you can do, then I totally respect that on my thought processes. Just be very mindful and educated around what you’re missing out on when you make a choice to cut out one of the food groups that’s probably the most health beneficial to humans.
Michelle Norris:
And so that’s my big thing is. Now, it’s all about all-rounded health. Everything is… all of this is all attached to each other so my whole vision is just helping educate people to understand they don’t just have the right, but they have the responsibility of taking their own health into their own hands and being their own health advocate.
Michelle Norris:
Because at the end of the day, doctors don’t have the ability to be your health advocate. That’s never going to happen and it’s never happened in the history of humanity. Doctors have never been health advocates. That’s not the system that they were educated in.
Michelle Norris:
Hopefully that’s changing, but it’s not the system that they were educated in. So they can’t be your health advocates. So you have to educate yourself. And you really have to get connected to, from your mind to your body. Because [bctt tweet=”Your body is one of the best diagnostic tools on earth – Michelle Norris” username=”kylethegray”]. I mean, your body will give you clues, tell you what it needs, do all of those things, if you’re listening to it and if you’re connected to it.
Kyle Gray:
Amazing. Yes, I agree with a lot of that. And I would just add on just for starters, just start to pay attention to how you’re eating. But on the floor of Paleo f(x) there are so many different, unique food products that they’ll blow your mind at what you can find just out there that’s available for alternatives and just different things.
Kyle Gray:
And so, let’s go down to the Paleo f(x) floor and hear from one of the most unique food products I found.
Kyle Gray:
All right, I am here with Wahid Abdul-Wahab from Desert Farms. Now, Wahid, tell us a little bit about what Desert Farms is all about.
Abdul-Wahab:
So Desert Farms is a company that specializes in super foods from the desert. Our first and flagship product was camel’s milk. And camel’s milk is a product that’s been used for centuries in the Middle East and North Africa. It’s been prized for its unique properties, being it’s the closest milk to human breast milk. And also it being non-allergenic. It doesn’t have the same casein as cow’s or goat’s milk. And that makes it the closest milk to human breast milk. So a lot of children with allergies or parents with infants are using it as an alternative.
Abdul-Wahab:
Other products we have are hump fat and camel fat. Those are, essentially, fat products from the meat of the camel. And so we render it and process it. And people use it, essentially, as a coconut oil replacement or a lard replacement. And the hump fat is actually extremely prized in the Middle East. Nomads would literally thrive off it for months and use it as a dipping sauce. And so fat, back home, where I’m from in Saudi Arabia it’s always been the most expensive.
Abdul-Wahab:
Everyone would want to look forward to eating the fat part of it. Like everyone wanted the thing, craved the fat the most. And so we developed a product that meets that.
Kyle Gray:
That’s incredible. And very interesting. A very unique approach to what you’re doing. I’ve never seen or heard camel milk. There are all kinds of different milk products out there and I want to talk to you about that.
Kyle Gray:
So you’re from Saudi Arabia, and you’ve grown up around this. But tell me a little bit about your story and why you are bringing the superfoods of the desert into the world.
Abdul-Wahab:
Yeah, because I grew up in Saudi Arabia in the deserts of Arabia for about 20 years. Family is still over there and I just recently moved to the US about ten years ago for college. But it’s when I moved here, I realized everyone was really into goods from islands or rain forests where things were abundant.
Abdul-Wahab:
And [bctt tweet=”I’m a firm believer that things thrive in the most demanding situations – Wahid Abdul-Wahab” username=”kylethegray”] And I think the desert helps people adopt into the demanding situations. And so whatever thrives and grows there obviously has the most concentrated nutrition and vitamins out of any other plants or animals in any type of region.
Abdul-Wahab:
Because there’s a lack of water. There’s a lack of food. There’s barely any predators. So whatever grows there and lives there has gone through cycles of adaptation to withstand that heat and lack of food. And so that reflects in the nutrition that the camel brings out. I mean, camels in our culture are extremely revered because they’re just so magnificent. I mean, they’re the only animals that can withstand months without food or water in the desert. They’re used for transportation. Their hair can be used for clothing. And their milk for drinking. So, they’re literally the ships of the desert is what a lot of people call them.
Kyle Gray:
Wow. And so what is it like trying to break into a market where there are so many alternatives out there and you need to stand out as something to really change people’s very basic daily behaviors. It’s something that I don’t think people consider many alternatives for unless there’s like a specific health concern pointing to it.
Kyle Gray:
What are you doing in sales and marketing to get your message out and really differentiate yourself?
Abdul-Wahab:
Yeah, I mean one thing that set us apart was really focusing on one niche and kind of like owning that niche. So we’re really concerned with children with allergies specifically. Because if you’re allergic to milk in general, you have a high probability that you’re also going to be allergic to dairy alternatives. So some of these kids in the ages of two to four don’t have an option for milk alternative. So they’re left with drinking other beverages like juices or water and all that stuff. So we wanted to focus on one single demographic, and that worked extremely well for us.
Kyle Gray:
Very cool. And so you’re here at Paleo f(x). You’ve got camels outside. People are riding camels. I took a selfie with a camel just a minute ago. Tell me about your strategy, coming to events like this. Is it you’re hoping to build in new consumers? Build awareness? Tell me your event strategy here.
Abdul-Wahab:
Yeah, the most important thing for us here is to build relationships and to find out what consumers want. We were very familiar with this community. We’ve been here for the last four years. So, we like to stay up into trend and see what’s up and coming. But also I think the main just strategy is just to identify how we can solve problems for a lot of the customers.
Abdul-Wahab:
Are we really delivering a product that they really need, or is it something that they just want? And for us… for a lot of people, our product is something that they really need because there isn’t really a milk alternative out there that doesn’t react to them and give them flare-ups or digestion issues.
Kyle Gray:
Very, very cool. And one important question to close this out. From the Middle East, I’m not sure if you drink, but there’s a drink that mixes milk and vodka and some other sweet things called a White Russian.
Abdul-Wahab:
Yeah.
Kyle Gray:
And there’s a vodka booth over there. So if we combine camel’s milk and vodka, what’s that drink called?
Abdul-Wahab:
We don’t have that drink.
Kyle Gray:
It would be like the White Moroccan or something like that.
Abdul-Wahab:
Yeah, probably. Most people don’t drink back in the Middle East but if they do, that’s their own choice. Yeah.
Kyle Gray:
Yeah, I had to ask. Somebody pointed out the vodka booth down the way.
Kyle Gray:
So, Wahid, thank you so much for joining us.
Abdul-Wahab:
Thanks so much for having me.
Kyle Gray:
All right. And we are back with Michelle. Michelle, I want to go from food to another big element that I’m seeing on the Paleo f(x) floor. One of the biggest things I saw a lot of and in this kind of health movement that you are on the forefront of is measurement. I actually have a new measuring product on my wrist that I bought there.
Kyle Gray:
But being able to measure different elements of your health and track how different activities are impacting your body and your biology is one of the most interesting and, I think, fastest growing areas of this. Can you tell me a little bit about how you see technology and measurement playing a role in this movement?
Michelle Norris:
Oh, a huge role in my opinion. And you’re going to see it more and more and more. Specifically as we shift our current sick-care system to a true health-care system. You’re going to see a lot more health practitioners that are actually coaches. You’re going to be working with those people versus doctors in the future. And you’ll go to the doctor when you actually need to go to the doctor.
Michelle Norris:
But what you’re going to see is these health coaches are starting to use this technology, these wearables. I have an aura ring. I also have a bio-strap. I have several other wearables, too, that I’m currently not working with right now but I have in the past.
Michelle Norris:
And this is, is that the data is amazing because it can really track trends in how you’re feeling, what’s going on in your body, what’s happening. And a health coach that’s really well-versed and educated into how to use these measurements is going to be able to help you with your health goals and being able to keep you healthy for more long term.
Michelle Norris:
And keep you out of situations where you get into diabetes and heart disease and all of these things because we’re measuring all of these different things. Particularly your sleep. Sleep is a big issue. And a lot of people really don’t understand how big a factor sleep plays to your health. And so, tracking your sleep is probably one of the most basic, easiest, and most probably, impactful things that you can do.
Michelle Norris:
Because if you track some foods or things that you do along with your sleep, you can see how something actually impacts your sleep. Like, say, alcohol or say you have some type of sweets or you have some type of refined carbohydrates or you have some type of caffeine or whatever the case may be. If you’re tracking some of those things together, which I track freaking everything…
Michelle Norris:
I had a really bad health issue come up. I had a severe mold exposure in 2015. It took me two years to recover from that and I’m finally just getting my health and my weight and everything back on track. Because when I became paleo, I didn’t fluctuate in weight from the time that I became paleo until 2015, but maybe up and down four pounds. That’s it.
Michelle Norris:
And then suddenly I had a 28-pound weight gain in less than three weeks. When you’re tracking stuff and you start really monitoring the things that you’re doing, it’s great because, number one, you have these wonderful benchmarks. So say you really, really get sick in the future, if you’ve got blood work and all of these things.
Michelle Norris:
And this is why I’m a huge proponent of young people having blood work. Right now they feel bullet-proof. They don’t think that all that stuff’s way in advance, but guess what? If you have wonderful benchmarks now, as you’re moving through life if you keep track of all of these things and keep them. Then, they’re going to be able to find something that’s wrong with you faster because they’re going to be able to go, oh, okay, well we see where this is your normal and now suddenly you’re here or you’re here. Whatever the case may be.
Michelle Norris:
And the thing is, I really wish, that’s one thing I wish I had done all my life is track all of my bio-markers for a long period of time. But you’re going to just continue to see wearables getting more and more detailed and dialed in and getting more accurate. And you’re going to see more and more health practitioners and doctors start really tracking this.
Michelle Norris:
My doctor tracks my aura ring, all that information. And then I have another tracker that I do personally on a daily basis I track my mood and I track all kinds of other stuff, and I sent that over to him as well. My thought process is, you’re just going to continue to see these things gets better and get more developed and get more dialed in and get more accurate.
Kyle Gray:
I think so. And I have a chance to have met David Korsunsky a couple of times and he is working to synthesize and aggregate all of this data. I got to chat with him on the Paleo f(x) floor. And let’s go hear from him right now.
Kyle Gray:
I am with David Korsunsky of Heads Up Health. Thanks for joining us, David.
David Korsunsky:
Thank you, Kyle. And thank you for beautifully pronouncing my last name.
Kyle Gray:
Absolutely. It took a little bit of time to practice, I must admit.
David Korsunsky:
Yes. It rolls right off the tongue.
Kyle Gray:
But between our calls…
David Korsunsky:
It was smooth.
Kyle Gray:
Yeah, I used to call you, in secret, David Kor-syllables.
David Korsunsky:
There you go.
Kyle Gray:
But I’ve practiced. Now I’m ready.
David Korsunsky:
I appreciate that.
Kyle Gray:
Yeah. So you’ve got a gorgeous booth here. You’re showing people how to measure ketosis. And there are so many interesting people here who are experimenting with their bodies and their minds and their health in so many different ways. I want to hear what kind of brought you to this world. And tell us about why people who are measuring what they’re doing would want to come see you.
David Korsunsky:
Yes, well, ketosis is one thing we help people measure, but we have a lot of people who are not on a ketogenic diet. But they’re working on some health goal. And what I realized on my own health journey was that when I had the right data, it was helping me change my behavior in ways that were positive.
David Korsunsky:
So when I could see some good data on my sleep quality, I started looking at ways to get better sleep. And when I started figuring out how to get the numbers on the scale to move through dietary change, I could see my weight coming down.
David Korsunsky:
So Heads Up Health really is based on the principle that we can use data to transform our health. So the way we do that is we give people one place to look at all of their medical history. So if you’re working on any number of health conditions, thyroid condition, auto-immune, or even just like these people, how do I put as much lean mass as possible, you need some measurement and that’s what our system does.
David Korsunsky:
It’s all integrated. The fancy word is analytics. Which is a word I know you appreciate.
Kyle Gray:
Oh, yeah.
David Korsunsky:
But some people may not really resonate with that word. But that’s really what it is. Which is how can we aggregate and visualize data in a way that is meaningful. And that drives change.
Kyle Gray:
Well, I think that’s really powerful. And definitely when we talk to analytics about me, I’m usually looking at who’s visiting my website. Which is…
David Korsunsky:
It’s like Google analytics for your health, right? Like you can go to Google analytics and optimize your website. But there were no good tools for health.
Kyle Gray:
Yeah.
David Korsunsky:
So that’s kind of what we’re trying to provide.
Kyle Gray:
I love it. I love it. And you are traveling to many different events. Paleo f(x) is filled with all kinds of health hackers and you wouldn’t believe just kind of what we’re seeing. We’ll definitely be meeting more people here.
Kyle Gray:
But you’re traveling around to a lot of different events like this and meeting these communities. And with you’re investing in good booths, good relationships. But this is a big investment to come out to these events. To have all these nice things. You’re spending your time here. So there’s gotta be something to this strategy. Can you tell me a little bit more about kind of you traveling around to events and why you do it and how it works for you?
David Korsunsky:
Well I think when you have a product for consumers, it’s a wonderful way to make them aware of your service. And we can have live demos here so people can actually see it. They can meet me, the founder, and understand I’m a genuine person trying to build a meaningful product. So it helps with the trust factor.
David Korsunsky:
So I think there’s the human aspect of just connecting with people and helping them understand what you’re working on. There’s obviously a huge cost to it, though. And you can’t afford to go to all of them. For years I couldn’t afford to go to any of them. So sometimes I would just come as an attendee and walk the show floor. And I’m like, one day I’ll be able to afford a booth here. And that’s just part of the growth.
David Korsunsky:
And now we’re at a point where we’ll pick maybe three or four events per year that we want to be at. And we’ll come here and make the investment of time and money. A, because it’s fun. I get to meet cool people like you and Grace and everybody else. So there’s a really nice social aspect. B, it helps people understand what you’re building. C, it helps us find new business partners. So I might find a new technology company that we want to integrate with.
David Korsunsky:
And it also helps me discover all the latest technology in this industry. Not just digital health tech, but nutrition, and things like these LED light therapies. So for me as a business owner, it helps me make sure I know what the heck is going on in the industry. So, there’s a huge cost but if you can manage the cost side, then those are some of the benefits we look for.
Kyle Gray:
Absolutely. Is this one of the events that you were thinking to yourself, maybe a few years back, I can’t wait to have my own booth here?
David Korsunsky:
Yes.
Kyle Gray:
Absolutely.
David Korsunsky:
Because I love this event. I’ve come to this event every year. I think I watched every DVD in 2012 because I couldn’t go. But they had a DVD-pack.
Kyle Gray:
Oh, wow.
David Korsunsky:
So I ordered the DVD-pack. I sat in my La-Z-Boy, watched every DVD, and took notes. Like everything these health experts were saying. I was just a fiend for this information. And then over the last few years, I always said, this is the place I’d love to just have a booth some day. And this year we made it happen.
Kyle Gray:
Wow. So as somebody who is kind of on the leading edge of cutting edge health, and you’re seeing all the products, all these protocols, every kind of method here. And you’re working on your own health, measuring your own health. How do you filter through all of this information?
Kyle Gray:
I mean, I feel like I see dozens of different booths here which all promise what everybody is looking for in health, more energy, better muscle recovery. How do you filter through all of this information in your own mind?
David Korsunsky:
Well, I think that’s why I use the data. You can ask ten people here, what should I do? You’ll get ten different answers. And then your head explodes. So if you have some numbers, okay, I’m going to try this for a month. Do my numbers get better?
David Korsunsky:
So you can use the numbers kind of like as your own validation tool. Okay, I took this supplement. They told me it’s going to do x. Let me go get my levels tested before I try it. And then, as I go through and after I try it, and then you know. Did it work for me or not?
David Korsunsky:
If it didn’t work, it doesn’t mean it’s a bad product. It just means that for your own individualized body, it didn’t work. Or it did. So, that’s part of analytics if you go back to your Google analytics example, if I change the button color on the sign-up button, do more people click on it?
David Korsunsky:
Same analogy with the supplement. Did it work or not? So, that’s part of what I use as a health point.
Kyle Gray:
Powerful. So if anybody’s out there interested in measuring your health, be sure to check out Heads Up Health. And if you want to see all of the craziest innovations in health, in science, in ancestral medicine, come to Paleo f(x) 2020.
David Korsunsky:
Indeed.
Kyle Gray:
All right, and we are back with Michelle. And this is one of the most exciting questions I have for you. A favorite part of the event by the whole crowd is not only what happens on the floor, but the parties that happen in the evening. And this is one of the best places that you really create this tribe and community. How do you plan your parties and keep the attendees mingling at Paleo f(x)?
Michelle Norris:
Well, actually, I can’t take responsibility for the fact that these people mingle at these events. The feedback that we get most from Paleo f(x) is how incredible the networking and the opportunity to connect with tribe and with community that we have at Paleo f(x) and particularly the social events that we have.
Michelle Norris:
So the thing is, is this just a really social group and they really want to connect with each other because there’s something about when you are in the presence of a whole lot of other like-minded people the energy level, the vibration, the frequency level is just heightened. And it makes things exciting. And it makes for a very fun and interesting, for you to be able to meet all of these different people.
Michelle Norris:
And so that’s one of the things that we have been very happy that has been a great by-product of Paleo f(x), is the networking piece and the ability for the community to come together and feel connected. And also feel like this is their tribe. This is their family. This is a chosen family. So, we’re real excited about that.
Kyle Gray:
Amazing. And I want to speak to one of the biggest sponsors and masters of parties like this, Dry Farm Wines, right now. So let’s go and hear from them and hear about how they can make these great parties happen.
Kyle Gray:
I’m here with Rosetta Wendell from Dry Farm Wines. Rosetta, wine is, or alcohol, are usually kind of on the list of bad things when I think of things in the ketogenic paleo kind of things. But Dry Farm Wines have something a little unique about them. Can you tell us about that?
Rosetta Wendell:
Absolutely. So Dry Farm Wines, we are in the business of sourcing what’s called natural wine. So we look specifically for wines that are organic or bio-dynamically farmed. And then we are lab-testing those wines for three things.
Rosetta Wendell:
As we all know, especially being ketogenic and making all these lifestyle changes where we want to eliminate sugar from our diet, it’s really important that there’s no sugar in our wine, which is something that happens naturally. We lab-test to make sure there is no sugar in the wine, less than a gram per liter.
Rosetta Wendell:
Then we also look for the sulfite level. We want to have low sulfites. So they are occurring naturally, but a lot of wine-makers will add a bunch of extra sulfites in there. We don’t go above 75 parts per million.
Rosetta Wendell:
And then alcohol. We don’t go above 12-1/2%. As you said, alcohol is still a toxin. It’s something we want to be super-conscious to. And we want to be able to sit down and enjoy a glass of wine and kind of open up socially, but without getting too much of a head-heavy buzz or so we don’t feel well, whether that night or the next day. So we keep it at that 12-1/2 mark. A lot of wines now are getting up higher and higher in alcohol percentage, so it’s something we’re very passionate about.
Kyle Gray:
Wow.
Rosetta Wendell:
Yeah.
Kyle Gray:
And, so, you’ve come to this event. And you’re hosting a few parties. I’ve seen you at another event before.
Rosetta Wendell:
Yes.
Kyle Gray:
And it seems like you’re behind coordinating a lot of these events and promotions. You’re on the road a lot. Can you tell us a little bit about this strategy and what you’re doing?
Rosetta Wendell:
Absolutely. So events is a huge, huge part of what we do at Dry Farm Wines. And the reason is because there’s so many of these amazing health leaders and communities that are coming together, bringing people in to educate them. And we want to let people know that there is a wine option out there. You can have this lifestyle and still drink some alcohol and feel good the next day.
Rosetta Wendell:
And it’s about connecting people. So for us when we go into one of these, we do about 100 conferences a year all over the country. And we show up with our wine, and with our team, and we just pour endlessly. All day, they’ve got all of these talks that they’re going to, information overload, all these conversations, everything. And then at the end of the day, it’s nice to kind of unwind and really unpack some of those emotional connections. And wine is always a good thing that shares over with that and makes that even a deeper connection.
Rosetta Wendell:
And it’s important to us to support these leaders and these partners in what they’re doing because this is the change. This is the health revolution of asking questions and taking care of our bodies and emotionally connecting with people on a deeper level. So we feel that we do that with wine around our family table at home and we want to bring that to events as well. And bring that same energy. We’ve got a pretty amazing crew on our team that just loves to share and spread the love. And it just made it so much fun. There’s a lot that goes behind it and it’s worth every bit to be here.
Kyle Gray:
Absolutely. And one of the most refreshing and nicest things to see, especially as somebody who’s following somewhat a strict diet, here’s a glass of wine you actually can enjoy. But I love what you were saying about the human connection. And I think that that’s such an important part. And I think it’s really generous the way you create events so that people can connect with each other, too, not just you.
Kyle Gray:
What’s important for creating an event, a space, a feel, where people can relax and feel comfortable and connect?
Rosetta Wendell:
Yeah. So experience is the biggest thing that we’re about in planning an event. Because you want to remember how people feel and you want to remember the experience that they have. So they go to an event and they’re talking with somebody. What about that event is standing out to them? What’s important to them?
Rosetta Wendell:
So whenever we’re creating an event, we want to always have that in mind. The space where it’s at. How can we bring it to the next level and kind of bring the best of class service? How can we think about every little detail to where people do feel comfortable? Things have a good flow and they’re inspired by the space and by the people that they’re around. And for that, it’s about just bringing that energy and that passion.
Rosetta Wendell:
Because people see that and they relate to that in this space. And just putting it all together and making sure everybody has a good time is always the ultimate goal. With our conferences and all these small side events that we do. For Paleo f(x) here, it’s this huge conference and we’re pouring at seven different events all weekend.
Rosetta Wendell:
We started last night on Thursday, we’ve got a dinner tonight, the big charity dinner tomorrow night, a couple of side-off events with some partners to pour wine. So we’re always working with different venues, hotels, conference centers, different house parties, bars, and cafes. And so it’s just about working with their team and saying, hey, this what we’re here to do. We want to bring an added value, but work together so it’s a smooth, collaborative event.
Kyle Gray:
That’s incredible. And you’re moving around and you’re working really hard. What do you do to take care of yourself while hosting all these parties?
Rosetta Wendell:
Yeah. It’s a marathon for conferences. It really is. So making sure that I’m hydrating is my number one thing. Constantly hydrating. Because you’re moving around so much. And making sure that I’m getting a really good start to my day. I personally eat a bunch of eggs. I’m a breastfeeding mom, so calorie intake is huge for me in keeping up this energy. Getting a good night’s rest. Eating some high-nutrition powered snacks throughout the day. Start out my morning with four eggs. Actually just chugged a cup of bone broth from Picnik here in Austin. Absolutely love them.
Rosetta Wendell:
Had a golden milk latte with some turmeric. Ate a good chicken curry lunch and a big grass fed steak for dinner.
Kyle Gray:
Wow.
Rosetta Wendell:
Yeah. So hydration. Then some wine later. There’s no way I’d be able to do this if I was going to feel hungover the next day, so Dry Farm Wines is the only way for me to be…
Kyle Gray:
Beautiful.
Rosetta Wendell:
… able to drink at night, keep that energy going, and get up and do it all over again the next day.
Kyle Gray:
Yeah. Well, that is incredible, inspiring, and I think I actually need to go grab some food and water myself now after you mentioned all that and keep taking care of myself, too.
Rosetta Wendell:
Absolutely.
Kyle Gray:
Rosetta, thanks so much for hanging out with me.
Rosetta Wendell:
Thank you so much, Kyle. I really appreciate it.
Kyle Gray:
All right, and we are back with Michelle. Michelle, this event also attracts a great deal of creators. I saw podcasts being recorded on the floor, and I see things like documentary films being made, gathering up all of this knowledge and all of this expertise that is just compressed into these three days.
Kyle Gray:
Tell me about some of the amazing things that you have been seeing created as a result of bringing all of these people together.
Michelle Norris:
Well, lots of collaboration and lots of business happens at Paleo f(x) and that’s another thing we’re really proud of. The 2017 event, Serenity Heegel and her now husband, Joe, were on the floor and they realized that there was no baby food. They were like, what? What’s the deal with this? There’s no baby food. Why is there no baby food? That doesn’t make any sense.
Michelle Norris:
Joe Carr and Serenity were planning on having a family soon, they were getting married within the next year or so. There really should be a baby food company. So what’s interesting is, from 2017 to 2018 they were able to take the idea, the concept, and get it to a viable product in one year and they launched their business in 2018 on the floor of Paleo f(x).
Michelle Norris:
It’s an amazing company, Serenity Kids. And that’s the kind of thing that happens at Paleo f(x). It’s just kind of behind the scenes. And then we have lots of different buyers that come in from a lot of different companies. And so, again, there’s a lot of the products that you see on the floor that end up getting into like Whole Foods, or they get into Natural Grocers. They get into Sprouts or whatever. It’s because they were out on the floor and they loved the products and they wanted them in their stores.
Michelle Norris:
And the thing is, is you’re going to keep continuing to see that because more and more people are joining this marketplace. More and more people are joining the movement of saying we want real, whole foods that are created and re-gendered in agricultural states and in that type of process.
Michelle Norris:
We want sustainability. We want all of these things to be non-GMO. We want them to be organic. We want all of these things to be this way because this is what’s best for us as humans and it’s what’s best for the planet. And so you’re seeing more and more people joining this movement. So you’re going to see more and more of the marketplace heading that direction.
Michelle Norris:
The big thing is, and I think it was a three-year period, that some of the biggest food companies saw their drop in revenue for cereals happen at 300% over a three-year period. Well, that tells them, okay, if people are not buying cereal, what are they buying? Where are they going?
Michelle Norris:
And so, they’re taking an interest in that, and a lot of these companies are coming in to Paleo f(x) to find products that they can actually take on. So you saw, a few years ago EPIC was bought out by General Mills. EPIC still can control the quality of the product.
Michelle Norris:
The other thing is Kraft just bought Primal Kitchen. And then, what’s the other company that… Heinz, I believe, bought Arks Bars. So you’re seeking a lot of that happen because these companies realize in order to stay relevant they have to have products that people want to buy. And the other thing is, there’s a lot of people that were really concerned. They were like, oh, no, General Mills is going to change EPIC Bars. And EPIC said, no, we’re going to change General Mills. And they have done that. And General Mills is really moving towards a regenerative agriculture.
Michelle Norris:
And it’s interesting. We went to an event out at Roam Ranch which EPIC owns. And we went out there and many of the executives from General Mills were there and they were talking about the initiatives that they had been creating in order to create these regenerative agriculture projects through the company and being able to do things like that. That wouldn’t have happened if they hadn’t acquired EPIC. That just wouldn’t have happened.
Michelle Norris:
I shouldn’t say that. I don’t think that that would have happened because I think EPIC made it a point in bringing them into the fold of what they were doing and so. It might have with another company, but it happened because of EPIC and so we’ve got to give credit where credit is due.
Michelle Norris:
Taylor Collins and Katie Forrest, who were the owners of EPIC, were really, really integral in making sure that that happened. And so, that’s the cool stuff that happens at Paleo f(x), and we’re really proud of that.
Kyle Gray:
That is incredible. And I want to take the mic over to a documentary filmmaker that I met on the floor who is again, documenting this journey as its unfolding right now.
Kyle Gray:
All right, I am here with Jeff Hays from Jeff Hays Films. Jeff, thank you so much for joining us today and getting me out of the noisy showroom floor for a minute.
Jeff Hays:
It’s good to be here and it is good to get out. I’ve been in Austin since Monday, and the first few days were rainy. And Wednesday was massive rain. I mean, like record-setting rain. And just in time for Paleo f(x) Thursday the weather turned beautiful and it’s good to be out in it.
Kyle Gray:
Here we are. I’ve been loving it coming from Utah where it’s still snowing. I think I’m going to be able to ski until July this year, so getting some sunshine has been really, really nice.
Kyle Gray:
So Jeff, tell me a little bit why you’re here. You’re a filmmaker and we are in an apartment with an amazing film set-up right here. I just saw you do some of your work. Tell me what you’re up to.
Jeff Hays:
So, it’s funny. I, for efficiency, because I do documentary films, one of our main expenses is travel. A lot of times when we carry so much equipment, we can spend seven or eight hundred bucks in just one leg of a trip on extra luggage fees. And so one of the ways we offset cost is if we can go where there’s a collection of really great experts, then they know I can come in and do 10 or 12 interviews in a couple of days that, if those were individual interviews I had to fly out to meet each person, I could be spending ten or fifteen thousand dollars an interview.
Jeff Hays:
So it’s really efficient. But, Paleo f(x), I came last year and didn’t film. I came because I’ve got so many friends here and such a great group of people. And I have such a personal interest in the vendors and the talks that I’ll come to this one just for fun. And this time I came for work.
Kyle Gray:
Beautiful. So what attracted you to this place in the first place? And I believe the film we’re making right now is a documentary on supplements? Are you making a lot of work in kind of the health world?
Jeff Hays:
Yes. So I did a lot of docuseries and documentaries in the health space. I did one last year that a lot of the people that I know here were in, called The Real Skinny on Fat. And it was about good fats and ketogenic diet. So a lot of those experts are the same experts that will come to Paleo f(x).
Jeff Hays:
This one on supplements, a lot of the manufacturers are here. You have functional medicine doctors here who are the opposite of the doctors who will tell you, supplements, if you take them, you’re just buying expensive urine. These are people that are using good supplements in their practices to really treat and help people. And this is just a good collection of them.
Kyle Gray:
Absolutely. I have been really impressed by everybody here has a big story and a big purpose and they want to make an impact on the world. How do you think your work and film is helping make that happen?
Jeff Hays:
Well, I always view that what I do is give a voice to causes or people that sometimes don’t have a voice or need their voice amplified. Especially when I’m filming like a PhD researcher spends, sometimes, ten years alone researching. And then they get together and they read their papers to one another. But it never really breaks out into the public.
Jeff Hays:
And so you’ll have a ten- to twenty-year lag between what’s currently known in research and what’s being implemented in people’s lives. And everything that we can do to shorten that, if it’s true, if it’s good information. The sooner we can get it out to people, the sooner that we can help them.
Kyle Gray:
That is very, very powerful. And I think it’s really interesting to me that you’re working with PhD people, or just people who are brilliant, on the cutting edge of this science. Is there anything you do in your interviews or preparing these people to be interviewed to set them up so that they can easily share what they’re doing in interesting and compelling ways without getting too much into the weeds and maybe the details? PhD work is a tremendous body of work. How do you get to the real gold in what they’re looking at?
Jeff Hays:
So, most of the interviews that I film, my partner, Patrick Gentempo, films. And so I solve that problem by having him do the interview. He is really tremendous when people say complex things, he’ll pause, oh, okay, wait a minute now, help me here. And he’s really good at going back and forth, so he’s far better at it than I am. On the interviews I do, people just have to tolerate my style. I’m just not as fast on my feet as Patrick.
Jeff Hays:
But, I tell you, even if it’s somebody who’s been working in a lab, they tend to have to explain their work. And they develop metaphors over time. And then you have, a lot of the people that we interviewed have books. And they’ve been forced to go through the process of, okay, wait a minute, I’ve got to make this clear.
Jeff Hays:
The other thing that I’ve noticed in the last four or five years that is helping a ton is podcasts. Whenever I interview somebody that has done 20 to 100 podcasts, by then they really have learned how to say what they’re saying in a compelling way. It’s a side effect of podcasts that I never expected.
Kyle Gray:
That’s great. Yeah, you get to practice your talks and your stories. It’s very low pressure, but it’s also very good to get that kind of immediate feedback and it’s amazing tool to collaborate and create. And thank you for joining me on me podcast today.
Jeff Hays:
It’s good to be here.
Kyle Gray:
All right. All right, and we are back with Michelle. Michelle, it has been such a pleasure talking to you. We have gotten to explore so many different areas of health and so many different areas where Paleo f(x) is making a huge impact on the world. And I would just like to invite you to leave us with any closing thoughts, and then, let us know how we can connect with you and engage with you and what we need to do to make it to Paleo f(x) 2020.
Michelle Norris:
Okay, so, probably the thing that I would want to leave you with the most is something that I’m very passionate about personally. There are so many times when we see things out in the world that we believe need to be changed. We believe that they are things that are not right. They’re not correct. They don’t serve people. They may actually be doing harm, whatever.
Michelle Norris:
But we see these things, and we’re like, oh, that really needs to change. Or, oh, that really needs to change. And what happens is we sit back and we wait and we think somebody else is going to change it. And let me be clear, you are the one that needs to go change it. And you are the one that has the power to do that. And the reason you have the power to do that is because you’re the one that sees the change that needs to be made.
Michelle Norris:
And so, I will challenge everyone that when you see something that is really needing to change or the game needs to be upped. Or whatever the case may be, go do it. Brittani wasn’t drastically changing the world where you could actually see something. Like you didn’t see it until it was done. Until the work was finished.
Michelle Norris:
And so when we got to her memorial service and saw this amazing impact, clearly we saw that that impact couldn’t just die with her. And so the opportunity that came up for us. when we saw the opportunity for Paleo f(x), we didn’t pass that opportunity up. We saw a need, we filled it. So when you see a need, when you see something that needs to change, you need to fill it.
Michelle Norris:
You have the power. And the thing is, is that so many times we just think, oh, well I’m one person. I can’t change things. But she made a huge impact in her life and she was just 22 years old. You can make an impact and it just starts with one drop in the water and then the ripple effect that happens.
Michelle Norris:
Paleo f(x) happened because she made an impact on a daily basis. She was doing things and helping change people however she saw it. So you have the power. You have so much amazing potential and power within you. You just don’t even have any clue. And so, I am giving you permission to go change the world because you can.
Michelle Norris:
And so, I’d say if you want to come to Paleo f(x), paleofx.com. You want to get your early bird tickets now, while they are on sale. It’s one of the best prices that you can get at this point. And, if you would like to follow me, you can follow me personally. I am BeTheGraceWomen on Instagram and on Twitter, and Be The Grace on Facebook. And I’m really, really happy to have anyone coming along, because that’s another area where we’ve got to change things. And that’s a project that I have coming up pretty soon that I’m planning to launch, is Be The Grace.
Kyle Gray:
Absolutely. Michelle, such an inspiring story and legacy you’re creating. Thank you so much for joining me on The Story Engine podcast and I can’t wait to see you in Austin, Texas in 2020.
Michelle Norris:
Yes. Thank you so much for having me. I was honored to be here.
Kyle Gray:
Thanks for listening to the Story Engine Podcast. Be sure to check out the show notes and resources mentioned on this episode and every other episode at thestoryengine.co. If you’re looking to learn more about how to use storytelling to grow your business, then check out my new book, Selling With Story: How to Use Storytelling to Become an Authority, Boost Sales, and Win the Hearts and Minds of Your Audience. This book will equip you with actionable strategies and templates to help you share your unique value and build trust in presentations, sales, and conversations, both online and offline. Learn more at sellingwithstory.co. Thanks for listening, and I’ll see you next time.